#18: Consensual Non-Monogamy (Part 1)
COMMUNITY VOICE: Jennifer Schwartz | HEALTHCARE EXPERTS: Lordes Dolores Follins PhD LCSW; Heath Schechinger PhD | COMMUNITY REVIEWER: Annalisa Plumb
RESOURCES
Books
Polysecure by Jessica Fern (big influence in this episode!)
The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy
Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel
Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski
Other Written Resources
Opening Up by Tristen Taormino
Elisabeth Sheff’s Select History of Non-Monogamy
Sound
Dan Savage’s podcast (Savage Love), but also this episode (featuring him as a guest) on Ezra Klein’s podcast
This Ani Di Franco song (hat tip to Jennifer, our community voice)
SHOW NOTES
Language, girls, language!
The umbrella term
Consensual non-monogamy, or CNM, defined as “relationships in which all partners give explicit consent to engage in romantic, intimate and/or sexual relationships with multiple people. "
FYI, some folks use ethical non-monogamy (or ENM) instead. It’s really up to you which feels like the best fit.
If you’re here as an ally, we encourage you mirror the language used by the non-monogamous people in your life
Why are there so many terms anyway?
In the world of non-monogamy, we’re often talking about both behaviors (who you have sex with, who you have relationships with) and the identities (how those relationships feel and manifest)
Which means there’s a lot of permutations!
The many flavors of non-monogamy
It’s not Baskin Robbins - there’s infinite flavors!
We’re about to list a whole bunch of commonly seen non-monogamous relationship structures, but the reality is there’s more than we can enumerate (and we’d miss some even if we tried).
Instead, think about non-monogamy using the below schematic (props here to Jessica Fern and Polysecure), which has independent axes for sexual and emotional exclusivity.
Some relationship structures to know
Ones high in emotional exclusivity/low in sexual exclusivity
Swinging: multiple couples engaging in casual sex with one another
Open relationship: one committed emotional partner with multiple casual sexual partners
Hierarchical polyamory
Multiple romantic partners, but some take priority (are higher in the “hierarchy”) than others.
The “top of the ladder” partner can be referred to as the “primary” partner but our community voice, Jennifer, notes that for her, “nesting partner” is a more accurate phrase
Solo polyamory: multiple romantic and/or sexual partners, but no logistical investment in a single one (i.e., absence of a “primary” partner); the individual lives a single, independent lifestyle
Anarchical polyamory or relationship anarchy:
Where the lines between platonic/romantic/sexual intimacy are dynamic
No “rules” about what kinds of intimacy (romantic, emotional, platonic, sexual) are on or off limits in any given relationship
Can think of it as a mix-and-match approach
Why is non-monogamy a queer health topic, anyway?
Well, the queers are sure doing a lot of it
45% of bisexual men and 32% of gay men (approximately) are non-monogamous versus 25% of heterosexual men
35% of bisexual women and 21% of lesbian women are non-monogamous vs. 16% of heterosexual women
But it’s not just the numbers
Queerness necessarily provides a rupture with normative society, which frees folks to think expansively (or, in Dr. Follins’ words, abundantly) about their happiness and connection and intimacy
In history, groups that have similarly broken away from dominant ideologies (read: the Transcendentalists, the Free Love movement of the 1960s) have also had expressions of non-monogamy (for more on this, check out Sheff’s Select History of Non-Monogamy)
The Greene theory of the Park Slope Lesbians
Within the queer community, non-monogamy has most closely been associated with cis gay and bisexual men. In contrast, women are historically associated with monogamy
But what if we reframe this?
Perhaps some of this is simply a product of socialization. Said otherwise: among men, particularly queer men, it is more acceptable to crave and seek out sex – and the intimacy that comes with it. Or, as Richard put it, “gay men like to fuck.”
In lesbian communities, there are forms of intimacy that exist beyond traditional paradigms of monogamy and platonic friendship. Think about the trope of lesbians in Park Slope (that’s the gay part of Brooklyn for you non-New Yorkers) who water plants for each other and drive each other to the airport.
- Labels are important, of course, so if folks aren’t . But in both case
Thinking about non-monogamy? Keep reading!
First: ask yourself “why?”
Not to question your motives, we promise! But asking yourself, “what can non-monogamy provide for me?” can be a helpful way to clarify what structure/form of non-monogamy might be the best fit for you
Dr. Schechinger’s take (via research!) non-monogamy can provide a diversity of emotional needs, can promote authenticity, can enhance communication and trust
To that point: think about therapy!
This is by no means a requirement (to Jennifer’s point: the intention isn’t to gatekeep!)
Therapy will allow for the formation of a solid independent emotional foundation - one that will prove useful as you start to venture into the complex (but rich!) emotional world of non-monogamy
“Before you are ready to connect with multiple, multiple people, you have to connect with you” - Jennifer
Find your (CNM) people
Online communities exist!
In-person groups are out there, too, but depend on where you are
Lastly: read a book! See our resources above for some places to start.
TRANSCRIPT
Jennifer: I think a part of me assumed that when you were in a relationship with someone and you were attracted to someone that your attraction and interest in other people just stopped and mine did not. And I was very, very concerned. But the first time I think I remember hearing that I like had this as an option available to me. I was super blown away and even that we could be open about this? Like, mind completely blown.
[QHP theme music begins]
Sam: Welcome to Queer Health Pod. QHP is a podcast about sexual health topics for sexual and gender minorities. I'm Sam, I use he, him pronouns, and I'm a primary care doctor in New York City.
Gaby: I'm Gaby, I use she/her pronouns, and I'm also a primary care doctor in New York City.
Richard: and I'm Richard, I use he him pronouns, and I'm the director of LGBTQ clinical services At Bellevue. Hospital in New York City.
Gaby: You're listening to QHP season 2 episode 8, consensual non monogamy part one.
[QHP theme music ends]
Richard: This episode is the first of two episodes on non monogamy or relationship structures that include more than two partners, either sexually or romantically.
Sam: Would this queer flower smell as sweet by any other name? Well, it's complicated, but: those other names are ethical non monogamy, consensual non monogamy, and polyamory. We'll break those down for you later.
Richard: This episode is going to focus on definitions and fundamentals of this topic. And because of that, we suspect it may be best suited for folks who are just starting their journey into non monogamy.
Gaby: Or for friends and family of non monogamous people to help them better understand the concept.
Sam: Ugh, an allyship moment. We love it.
Gaby: Yes we do.
Richard: On the next episode, we'll focus more on some of the sticky points that can come up for folks living in non monogamous relationship structures: jealousy and compersion - and if you haven't heard that word before, the next episode is definitely for you. And also, how attachment styles can create complexity within these relationships. Where we can, we'll offer ways to troubleshoot the tough stuff and to get to the joy.
Sam: Before Richard starts telling me my own attachment style, something we should avoid, certainly while being recorded (laughter) let's get back to what the hell even is non monogamy.
Gaby: Well, the answer is kind of complicated because of course it is.
Sam: Alright, time for an expert.
Follins: So I'd like to begin with the definition so that we're all know what we're talking about. I really liked the American Psychological Association Division 44 Committee on Consensual Non-Monogamy's definition. And that organization's definition of CNM is: consensual non-monogamy is an umbrella term for relationships in which all partners give explicit consent to engage in romantic, intimate and/or sexual relationships with multiple people.
Richard: You may recognize that voice as Dr. Lourdes Dolores Follins, a real friend of the pod. She was one of our guests on a previous episode on LBQ+ women's sexual liberation.
Follins: My pronouns are she/her/hers and doctor. My relationship to this topic is that I'm a psychotherapist who primarily works with queer trans intersex people of color.
Gaby: Okay, at least to my unrefined monogamous lesbian ears, Dr. Follins' definition of consensual non monogamy – or what we'll call CNM – actually feels pretty legible. So, CNM is a non monogamous, meaning, not one to one, relationship structure where all the people involved are consensual or cool with it.
Richard: Be aware that CNM sounds an awful lot like ENM or ethical non monogamy.
Follins: And I've had people tell me that they prefer the term ethical non-monogamy as opposed to consensual non-monogamy as a way to delineate or to emphasize the importance of being ethical.
Gaby: And for what it's worth, I've actually heard the conversation on this fall both ways. Some people say that using the word ethical implies that non monogamy is by default, unethical. so the point is that as always the term is in the mouth of the beholder. Which feels sexual and maybe it is, I don't know (chuckles). Um. So whatever feels right to you is what's right for you.
Follins: I use the terms interchangeably, but it really depends on who I'm speaking with. So if the person I'm working with says ethical non-monogamy I do the same. If the person says consensual, non-monogamy I say the same.
Sam: We'll be using consensual non monogamy, or CNM, as our go to term for this episode, since we feel it does a good job at being a quote, umbrella term for non monogamy. But, under that umbrella, there's a lot of other relationship structures to explore.
Richard: And in case you're wondering why everything has to be so complex, here's one answer for you.
Schechinger: Just like there's plenty of people who engage in same-sex sex, but don't identify as queer in any capacity, right? The behavior doesn't necessarily have to match identity. And this is one of the challenges in this domain is figuring out how to quantify the different subtypes of non-monogamy while allowing for the complexities and nuances of identity and identity and behavior.
Richard: That's Heath Schechinger, they or he pronouns, our second expert voice on this episode. Heath is a co-founder and executive director at the Modern Family Institute.
Gaby: And also:
Schechinger: I'm also the founding co-chair of the APA Division 44 committee on consensual non-monogamy.
Gaby: For the listeners keeping track at home, that's the committee whose definition of CNM Lourdes literally cited a few moments ago.
Schechinger: And I'm also the co-founder of the Polyamory Legal Advocacy Coalition.
Richard: Heath's point is that from a behavioral standpoint, non monogamy is about having intimate, romantic, or sexual relationships with multiple people. From an identity standpoint, how those relationships feel and manifest is the stuff these labels are made for.
Sam: And thats a good segue into why Jennifer, our community voice, uses the terms “polyamorous" as an identity to describe her non-monogamous behavior.
Jennifer: I am Jennifer Schwartz. I use the pronouns, she/her, or they/them. For myself personally, the word that I use most often, I think, is polyamorous. When talking about this same idea, you know, kind of multiple loves, I do think of my relationship – and I believe by partners think of, of our relationships – as being polyamorous. And to me, the difference there exists in that we have emotional, relational, you know, loving connection there in addition to all of the other ways you can connect with a person. Sexual maybe kink and BDSM-related friendship, which is certainly I think like the most important maybe we work together in advocacy or work together in the community in some way. So there are all these different ways you can connect. But I would say that having, at least like a, a romantic attractional sexual, component is something that is present in all of my relationships at this time.
Gaby: So, what Jennifer is describing is a relationship structure where there is very little sexual exclusivity – meaning people are free to have sex with anyone that they choose to – but also low emotional exclusivity – which means people can have intimate romantic relationships with whoever they choose.
Richard: Ahh, Gaby’s bringing polysecure concepts into this.
Gaby: I know you love it too.
Richard: I do!
Gaby: So yes, Polysecure is this amazing book by this psychotherapist named Jessica Fern that really shaped my understanding of this world, particularly and here I'm going to out myself as a monogamous person who's really hoping to educate myself on this as an ally and as someone who takes care of people in poly or non monogamous structures. So Jessica Fern has this framework that I really like at the beginning of the book where she conceives of relationships along two different axes. One axis is sexual exclusivity, and the other is emotional exclusivity. So putting this together with an example, a relationship that is high in sexual exclusivity and also high in romantic exclusivity, that describes monogamy.
Richard: So, a relationship that is high in emotional exclusivity and low in sexual exclusivity. That's what many folks think of as an open relationship. This describes a set of primary partners who then have primarily sexual relationships with other people. It's not uncommon among cis gay men and to be honest, quite familiar to me personally.
Sam: A relationship that's low in emotional exclusivity and low in sexual exclusivity could just be called a gay man having a cat. But, it's also the kind of polyamory that Jennifer describes.
Gaby: We probably should have said this earlier, but if you're having trouble visualizing this... don't worry. So did Sam and so he made me make a basic diagram for this. It's gonna be in our show notes at www queerhealthpod.com. All credit for the concept and the basic visual structure to Jessica Fern. I also want to point out that if you are having trouble understanding this it's not a big deal because it's not a perfect paradigm.
Richard: So, for example, I worry when talking to people who are new to thinking about CNM that the term "low emotional exclusivity" could be confused with a lack of depth or meaning in their relationships. That's not what we're talking about. CNM relationships can have plenty of depth and plenty of meaning. It's just a question of with how many people.
Gaby: Yes, and where I find it useful for me mostly is in understanding very subtle differences between different CNM terms or CNM relationship structures that people use frequently.
Richard: Totally. It helps me to delineate between different subtypes of polyamory specifically. So for example, in the category of polyamory, there's a form with slightly higher emotional exclusivity where the person has romantic and sexual relationships with multiple people, but there could be a hierarchy to the degree of emotional or logistical investment.
Sam: Unsurprisingly, this is called hierarchical polyamory. The person at the top of the hierarchy is usually referred to as the primary partner, but other terms are used too, like nesting partner, which is what Jennifer prefers. The difference here is that rather than making one person quote more important than another by giving them the title of primary, nesting refers to the logistical or pragmatic commitment two or more people have made to each other.
Richard: In contrast, there are forms of polyamory that have much lower emotional exclusivity, like solo polyamory, where there is no nesting partner, it moves away from a couple centric structure completely, or even something called relationship anarchy, where the lines between platonic, romantic, And sexual intimacy are much more porous and dynamic.
Gaby: Polyamorous relationship anarchists are like, who says that I have to save any form of emotional intimacy for my romantic or my sexual partner specifically, and they also say, why are we saying that we can only do one form of connection for one type of person or one type of relationship? So I like thinking of it almost as a mix and match.
Sam: Or, again, like owning a cat. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
Richard: (rumbling laughter) Here's another place where the Polysecure framework comes in handy. So, you might be wondering, well how is an open relationship different from swinging which is something common among straight people. Key differences here between an open relationship and swinging is that swinging has the lowest sexual exclusivity you're free to have sex with whoever you want, and the highest emotional exclusivity. You're intended to go back to your primary partner at the end of your sexual encounters. It's really all about the physical connection in that case.
Sam: So, just like me, three months into a relationship, we're now going to stop defining relationships.
Richard: There's many more we haven't defined, so don't think that this is a complete list.
Gaby: And, in fact, the list is never finite because the vocabulary of non monogamy is always evolving.
Schechinger: I think we're still discovering new words to try to describe some of these more nuanced experiences that seem more specifically tailored to the non-monogamy community.
Richard: And I think it's worth taking a second to talk about why having all these dialed-in terms is so important.
Sam: I feel like it's about being on the same page. Someone who is in a polyamorous relationship may be looking for something different than someone who is in an open relationship. So having these terms lets you name what you want and allows for expectation setting.
Richard: Absolutely. Communication is a cornerstone of consensual non monogamy. And like with many other queer identities, there's legitimizing power to naming a way of being.
Follins: We have psychological research that shows that some people really need labels. Some people really need to have these professional associations validate their relationships and, you know, validate their ways of interacting with other people. So I tell people sometimes that, "Well, there actually is research that shows consensual non-monogamy is a relationship orientation that's been validated and found to be true for people. I'm not saying everybody is, but some people genuinely are like, that's what they're wired to be. That's how they're wired to love." And so when I tell people that their eyes kind of get wide and they're like, "Oh, wow. I didn't know that!” And they can run off and tell their partners or family members or whomever, "I just found out this!" You know, of course I make sure to provide them with the link to the information. It's not just "my therapist…” – there’s actual research that backs this up.
Richard: So in what ways does the existence of these different terms give people permission to think expansively about their own orientation towards relationships in a world where monogamy is so often the default option?
Gaby: Do you mean a mononormative world?
Richard: Yeah, exactly.
Sam: Okay, Merriam Webster, how many Scrabble points are you getting for that one?
Richard: That's completely her drag name.
Sam: Or the next Cher album. Um - maybe more Madonna. Anyway, it's time to –
Gaby: Not without her eyebrows shaved.
Sam: But just two eyebrows, so she'd have to get the unibrow and then shave it, and then it'd be mononormative. (laughter) But now it's really time to close out this section.
[Transition music begins]
Sam: We've talked about CNM as an umbrella term that describes relationships that involve multiple people and all are consenting. We've also explored how non monogamous relationships can vary in their degree of emotional and sexual exclusivity. Ultimately, there's lots of ways to describe non monogamous relationships and no one right term that applies uniformly to everyone.
[Transition music ends]
SamI want to start this next section off by asking the recurring question on this podcast: why is CNM a queer health topic?
Schechinger: So, we are just starting to get nationally representative samples, and we're finding that there's a high number of queer people that are also identified as non-monogamous So I'm thinking of one recent sample that was representative that, found that 45% of bisexual men, 32% of gay men roughly versus roughly 25% of heterosexual men and 35% of bisexual women and 21% of lesbian women versus 16% of heterosexual women. Right? So LGBTQ people are much more likely to identify as consensually non-monogamous.
Sam: So, that's the textbook answer to the question, it's a queer health topic because lots of queer people do it. And it's true. But I also don't think it gets at the fact that the queer communities and the non-monogamous communities have been in conversation with each other for a long time.
Gaby: Yes, this is where I get to put my history nerd hat on and tell you that throughout history, communities in which non-monogamy has cropped up have all been these – these fringe communities that have been distanced from dominant societal norms. So if you look at the recent-ish history of non monogamy, the concept crops up in the 1800s when the Transcendentalist movement got people thinking expansively about how to live life and re-imagine societal structures. And so all of these Quakers and Shakers started living on communes. And within these spaces, they engaged in complex, non monogamous relationship structures.
Richard: Yeah, it sounds super free love, dude.
Gaby: Funny you should say that, dude, (laughter) because the counterculture movement of the 1960s is the next time that non-monogamy has another resurgence. This is when the concept of swinging, which we defined earlier, becomes popularized. And, again, polyamorous communes are really common at this time. You can think of Woodstock, etc. I'm not trying to derail us too much with the history here, but what I think is notable is that non-monogamy continues to crop up in history when people get distance – and that's emotional distance, but think about these communes, it's also physical distance – from mononormative hegemony. Say that five times fast.
Richard: Mononormative hegemony, mononormative hegemony, mononormative…
Gaby: All right, all right, all right.
Richard: That was just three. And to bring this back to the LGBTQs of it all, queerness accomplishes the same kind of rupture from a normative society. Like, we're already deviant, so what kinds of possibilities does that open up for us when we think about our relationships?
Jennifer: Here is the most like I grew up as a lesbian in the nineties thing I'm ever going to say to you ever, so mark this there's this line and this Ani DiFranco song right? About: every tool is a weapon, if you hold it right. Okay. So I feel like, is this a privilege? Is this the result of marginalization, like that has just evolved? You know what I mean? Like the way we have a reclaimed, some of the words that have been used to harm us. Right. you think that we are wild and depraved, , yup. We're going to go do it now. And you don't get to say anything about it.
Richard: I love the idea of reframing non monogamy as a form of resiliency. It's connection that comes out of moments of significant isolation.
Sam: Which is a more empathetic and empowered understanding of non-monogamy rather than how it's historically been framed for queer people as promiscuity.
Gaby: But actually, if we're talking about queer people and the relationship that they have to non monogamy, I do want to highlight that not all queer people engage with or have engaged with non monogamy in the same way, right? Listen to Jennifer on this
Jennifer: I could not figure out for me – and I think this is important, I think this is a formative part of my identity – why the patterns that existed in my dating life more represented what some of my like, queer male friends looked like, right? Like a lot of the cis gay men that I was friends with in theater, who dated around and were much less interested in monogamy…like that pattern I saw emulated in my life and same idea, like just seeing a lot of other connections for me and those identities that I, I just couldn't figure out. Like at that time, in my limited understanding of the nuances of gender and other identities, like what's going on, am I a gay man? That's how this feels, right? Like: the other queer women that I knew were all about monogamy. And it just did not work for me.
Gaby: I think it's really, really interesting to ask ourselves why certain queer people were more inclined towards non monogamous structures than others. And what I'm really getting at, and what Jennifer says in her quote, is why are gay men more frequently associated with, or perform, or pursue, CNM?
Richard: I mean, and this is just my perspective, there's a component of this that's just a difference in sexual habits, right? Men are socialized to be valued for how many sexual partners they have, gay men like to fuck, and so it follows that structures that allowed for a larger number of sexual relationships would become more prominent in gay male communities.
Gaby: And I know you weren't doing this Richard, but I also want to be clear that when we're saying that, we're not equating someone's gender with their sexual appetite because there are plenty of estrogen filled people who are really horny too.
Richard: Absolutely. And some of this is about the socialization of different genders and the privilege of masculinity – who is allowed to express their sexual desire and who isn't. And then it's worth noting that there is a historical equivalent in queer women's non-monogamy. Like the old trope about, uh, on Park Slope, there are networks of lesbian exes who, like, water each other's plants and cat sit for each other and drive each other to the airport. These very intimate things that we often think about doing for romantic partners. And if we use the polysecure framework, you could frame that as a non monogamous structure with high sexual exclusivity – where people have their one sexual partner – but low emotional exclusivity. Now, these Park Slope lesbians may not label themselves as polyamorous, but the relationships in my example exist outside of stereotypical paradigms of monogamy or platonic friendship in how they allow for the exchange of love and support.
Gaby: I mean, I love this, but you're just gonna have like legions of monogamous lesbians and their crochet needles coming for you.
Richard: I love the lesbians and I hope that I'm not offending anyone. But like it's important to note that these relationships are really about: how do we define intimacy and how do we define relationships?
Gaby: Which is really interesting for me because I've been thinking a lot as I've been writing this episode, and Richard has shared what I'm going to call the Greene theory of the Park Slope lesbians, about these op-ed articles that have become popular since 2020, 2021, particularly for women in their late 20s or early 30s. And these articles are all about, like, reimagining the role that platonic love can play in our lives. These articles say, center friendships, don't center romantic relationships. And so, if I tie that back to the argument you're making, Richard, non monogamous principles are having their moment and their relevance in the mainstream right now, even if we're not talking about them or labeling them as non monogamy.
Richard: And I want to acknowledge that where this example falls off is that consensual non-monogamy is about how you define your intimate and romantic relationships. And if the folks in my example aren't defining them that way, then they're not polyamorous or consensually non-monogamous. But, you could imagine that level of intimacy could be relabeled as such if it weren't societally stigmatized.
[Transition music begins]
Gaby: And that, to me, is the beauty of CNM, Like, this idea that rupturing with mononormative sex and with the emotional configurations of monogamy Actually, just really allows for people to get closer to new and meaningful and maybe even more intuitive ways to be connected to each other.
[Transition music ends]
Richard: If you've been listening and have felt a new door open in your head as we've been talking about consensual non monogamy, we're going to spend this last section sharing some of the advice that our experts provided if you're thinking about pursuing consensual non monogamy, whether by yourself or opening up an existing relationship you're in.
Sam: The first step for many people considering CNM is to sort of remove the perspective of mononormativity that is really enmeshed into our culture. And, if you give yourself permission to imagine a non monogamous life for yourself, what emotion does that bring up? For Jennifer, it was a pretty clear ah ha moment.
Jennifer: The first time I think I remember hearing that I, like, had this as an option available to me. I was super blown away. That like, I could have a partner and not even like – not even like a shared partner. It wouldn't have to be a person where we were a triad. That I could have a partner and my partner could have partners and we didn't have to interact with each other and it could just be okay if people could not be mad about it. And even that we could be open about this, like mind completely blown.
Richard: Know that the feelings may not all be uniformly positive, though.
Follins: One thing that I, you know, first had to have conversations with people about is the context. We live in a society that biased in favor of monogamy this bias is oppressive well, of course you're feeling apprehensive. Nobody's ever told you it’s an option. Or no one said it's a viable option. Or it's always been framed as cheating or sneaking or, you know, doing something else or people have been told, well, you're just bad at monogamy or you're just bad at partnerships.
Richard: Something that Jennifer said that I found to be really powerful was that before she discovered polyamory, she had done things in an attempt to be in monogamous relationships that she wasn't really proud of and that she wound up hurting the people she was trying to be monogamous with. When she discovered polyamory, she identified that it felt authentic for her in a way that she can now interact with others in her relationships in ways that are meaningful.
Sam: Remember what Lourdes said earlier. This is a relationship orientation.
Gaby: Regardless of whether you're like Jennifer And have this aha moment or not, If you're thinking of engaging in CNM for the first time, it might be useful to ask yourself: why? What role are you hoping it's going to play in improving your life?
Follins: First, when you, when you think about consensual, non-monogamy what comes to mind? Like, what are your ideas before we even get into what it actually is? What do you think of? What, what ideas, ways of living, ways of being was loving, even ways of having sex? Like what comes to mind when you think about it?
Gaby: And just to be clear, the reason we're saying, know your why, is because doing so actually helps you figure out which form of CNM is going to best serve you.
Jennifer: Coming closer, getting closer to figuring out what I want this to look like ideally for myself has also, certainly improved my relationships, um, improved the asks of my partners, and also improved the work I do around this, too.
Sam: So if you haven't decided to buy stock in CNM for a simple eight-part payment and subscription to QHP by subscribing to our podcast, liking us, and sharing, and buying a…pair of Gaby’s lesbian non monogamous ears for…next Halloween season (chuckle) here’s a list of reasons why you might want non monogamy.
Schechinger: Yeah, we actually did a study a while back and asked people about the benefits of consensual non-monogamy. What stood out about consensually non-monogamous relationships is that people talked about. It providing diversified needs. So it, it kind of relieves the pressure to meet all of my partner's needs that there's more people to meet my needs, that it even helps navigate when there's differences interests or libidos or even ability status. The other one is personal growth and development. So people talked about how it really promoted authenticity, how it really enhanced, their capacity, to be honest, and even enhance the relationship because it cultivated more trust in the relationship because they knew their partner didn't have to hide.
Richard: If this sounds like a lot of reflection, it sure is. Which is why Jennifer recommends therapy early on in someone's CNM journey.
Jennifer: I just sound incredibly biased but like I will say to everyone, go to therapy, just go to therapy (laughter). But there is so much self work in this that folks have to be at like a baseline of being able to kind of self-soothe and manage some of their own emotions in order to be able to be really successful here. And I know that people don't always like hearing that because, you know, they say like, "you know, how dare you gatekeep this community?” And I would never! Like you, you get to be here. But are you going to be here and getting your toe stepped on constantly and hurt and be in pain and have some negative experiences? Even folks who have done a ton of work on themselves do have those experiences, but they have this, this good emotional scaffolding, so they have something to fall back on, right? And it's not just like a 10 foot drop onto the concrete. So that is the part that I think is most helpful to folks and that we miss out on sometimes, is like: before you are ready to connect with multiple, multiple, multiple people, you have to connect with you.
Gaby: And while some of that self work is, like, literally, you know, work you do one on one in therapy, there is also a lot of power in exploring this by communing with the CNM community.
Follins: I also say, “Go find your people.” Meeting with and connecting with other people who are either interested in CNM or who are in consensually non-monogamous relationships or are interested in being in those relationships, finding your people is so validating, just like queers need to find our people, people that are queer and interested in CNM or people that are queer and CNM. We need to find our people. You need to know, like, that validation, seeing yourself reflected back is so vital and so crucial.
Gaby: Dr. Follins did flag for us that there are tons of online communities, and we'll link to some of those in our show notes, as well as some in-person ones, though which in person ones you go to is going to depend on where you live, of course
Richard: There are also a ton of written resources out there, too. We've highlighted Polysecure, which dives deep into the relational aspects of CNM. There's also the Ethical Slut, which spends more time unpacking mononormativity and the stigma around CNM.
Sam: If you're interested in opening up an existing dyadic or two person relationship, Dr. Follins recommends Tristan Taormino's book, Opening Up.
Gaby: Another shout out to Esther Perel's Mating in Captivity, which isn't explicitly about non monogamy, but discusses relevant dynamics that contribute to maintaining sexual desire in a long term coupled relationship. There's also a bit of that content in one of my favorite books, Emily Nagoski’s Come As You Are.
Richard: And finally, if you're a podcast person – as you're listening to one – there are podcasts about this that include ours, but also Dan Savage has a lot of good content in the Savage Love podcast. There's a particular interview that he did with Ezra Klein on Ezra Klein's podcast that blows up the preconceived notions of monogamy as a baseline relationship structure and asks the question: what would it look like if we embraced the value of a variety of romantic relationship structures?
Sam: But like, don't rush there because you're still listening to our podcast. So let's summarize for you.
Richard: Uh, fine. If you insist. Okay. So, we talked about the definition of consensual non monogamy or CNM as relationship structures that are not monogamous. Notably, CNM is an umbrella term that holds many other terms within it, including polyamory, open relationships, solo polyamory.
Gaby: We talked about how though straight people can pursue CNM, we feel it's a queer health topic. And that's not just because a high proportion of queer people participate in these relationship structures, but because queerness sort of facilitates CNM. As we've been placed on the fringes of heteronormative, cisgender normative, mononormative society, we can redefine the relationship structures that make the most sense to us.
Sam: And, to our cats.
Richard: Um, no.
Gaby: You sound like a lesbian right now, Sam.
Sam: Time may tell. Alright, just like Thoreau and the Transcendentalist Farmers Gaby drooled about earlier from the back of her U Haul parked In Park Slope.
Richard: OMG.
Gaby: I accept this for what it is, which is a compliment.
Sam: We did also spend some time going through recommendations from our experts, so you can check those out in our show notes where they've been organized for you.
Gaby: In bullet point form. But in summary here, go to therapy, find non monogamous community either online or in person, read some books on non monogamy, and oh yeah, go to therapy.
Richard: To be clear, not therapy because you need to be in therapy to be in non-monogamy, but because if you're going to be in CNM, you need to unpack your stuff. Not because it's bad to want non-monogamy…I'm here to tell you that it's not bad. The therapy isn't about being in non-monogamy. It's about getting in touch with your own reasons for wanting to be non monogamous that could help you explore it and have clear goals.
Sam: Okay. And in the true spirit of non-monogamy, we're not really done talking about it yet.
Gaby: (Raucous laughter) it's so good!
Richard: Brilliant.
Sam: So stay tuned for our second episode on this topic.
[QHP theme music ends]
Richard: QHP is a power sharing podcast that puts community stories in conversation with healthcare expertise to expand autonomy for sexual and gender minority folks.
Gaby: To read a little bit more about the books and the resources that everybody involved in this episode put together, check out our online show notes at our website, www. queerhealthpod.com.
Sam: And thank you to our community reviewer, Annalisa Plumb.
[0Richard: , We also want to thank our community voice, Jennifer Schwartz, and our experts Dr. Heath Schechinger and Dr. Lourdes Dolores Follins.
Gaby: Lastly, help others find this information by leaving a review or subscribing to us on Spotify or Apple. Or just send this podcast to one person who you think could benefit from listening to it.
Richard: And if you're on social media, our handle is @queerhealthpod on Twitter, or X, and Instagram. You can also email us at queerhealthpod at gmail. com
Sam: Thank you, as always, to Lonnie Ginsberg, who composed the theme music heard throughout this episode.
Gaby: Opinions in this podcast are our own and do not represent the opinions of any of our affiliated institutions. And even though we're doctors, please don't use this podcast as medical advice and instead consult with your own healthcare or mental health provider.
[QHP theme music ends]
Gaby: Let's put this together. A relationship, for example, that is high in sexual – bleh. A relationship that is high in sexual exclusivity there I'm describing nom, or, try that again. So putting this together with an example, a relationship
Richard: Monogamy is, complicated.
Gaby: No monogamy is complicated, as it turns out!
Richard: Monogamy is complicated.
Gaby: All right, seventh try is a charm. That's what the monogamous person said before they opened their relationship. Um…okay.
Richard: (laughter) that’s a b roll.
Gaby: That’s going to make it at the end.
Sam: Meow!